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The Magnet
As a development and marketing tool, the new tower hopes to attract shoppers to park their cars, get out and walk around. For years Evanston has suffered from the "drive-through" blues--people heading up from the city's North Side, finding nothing "worth" stopping for in Evanston (criminal) because its dynamic resembles the North Side in many ways and then heading on up and out. What's really lost in this debate is pedestrian traffic. People are drawn to height but the real purpose is storefront, street-level gains. People are not going to shop on the 17th floor of this tower, but they are going to shop down on Church Street. If that's what Evanston wants--more people buying material goods, &c., it should follow through with this.
385' Height
Pretty much any municipality, from small town to large city, has a height restriction built into their zoning ordinance. It isn't unusual at all.
Fountain Square
What a great looking building! I'd love to see it go up. I live downtown and think that it would be a wonderful addition to our city. I'm amazed that there is even a debate about this.
Wow!
Mr. Who has it right.
This development is within the city plan.
It has a very positive financial project as noted in different analyses.
It is a private development, no TIF
It will, as proposed, contribute $800 to housing fund
It will, as proposed, contribute $1M to
It will create and sustain jobs now and in the future
We need development for the long term
Questions of zoning are questions of zoning -- don't beat up on the project or the developeer
There is no conspiracy folks, sorry, its just not that much fun or drama
Write and call your alderman. They have all debated it and can answer the questions.
I cannot even believe that folks on here would even call a question about "where you were born" or "how long you have lived here" or "whether not someone has children" Sorry folks, that is the making of REALLY SCARY stuff. The last chance I checked, this was still the United States of America - land of the free and the mixing pot.
As liberal as Evanston is in so many ways, those comments really are quite shocking. Wow!
As liberal as Evanston is?
Evanston is by far one of the most closed minded places I have EVER lived. This is coming from someone who has worked in the deep South on agriculture and college football beats.
My husband, a "life-long" Evanstonian cannot step foot into an elevator on vacation in an NU hat without some dork screaming ETHS 80! Dude, who cares! I get it, you got beat up on by John Cusack in the lunch line. You ate at Burger King in the 80's Great! What a thing to share!
I used to be eager to live here because my NU experience was great, then I started meeting the people who actually live here, and it just this elitist poo-pooing and dismissal of "outsiders" that drives me nuts.
It's an Evanston thing they all chime. What? Becoming a curmudgeon at 30, being racist, signing up for every social service workshop possible yet unable to shovel snow for your neighbor, being over-educated to the point of blindness?
And you know what really irks me? Since the plan of Northwestern already created an environmental hazard-- I don't care about a tower. I want a marina. That you can put in my backyard.
I'd like to say this is a mixing pot, but from the looks of things I feel like the old money elites are pretty stern about picking the carrots out from their stew.
Blinded by their 'liberalism'
I couldn't agree with you more. Everyone here that proudly call themselves 'Evanstonians' are so eager to proclaim all that they support and protect, yet they are so quick to put down and block other views. Any sort of change and progress is met with protests, petitions, and the ever popular yard signs! As the liberal epicenter of Cook County you would expect a more welcoming attitude. Anyone who expects to come here and be 'free' is in for a rude awakening. You can say and be anything you want...as long as the 'Evanstonians' approve it! By the way, when are we going to form the army to defend us from the 2016 Olympics that will invade 'Heavanston'? Cant wait to see the creative yard signs for that!
More Condo Development?
I believe we need to begin building office space in downtown Evanston. Too many of our businesses are leaving the area due to lack of room to expand. Our downtown is condo-heavy and it is beginning to appear as though we are trying to emulate Lincoln Park. Let's give office buildings a chance!
Viability of office space
To my knowledge, there is nothing preventing a developer from proposing a new office building in the downtown area. The fact that developers aren't proposing such structures is a good indication that they don't see a market for new office space.
I would love to see new office and mixed-use buildings as well, but developers aren't proposing them, and the city can't force them to.
I'd be curious to know which businesses you are referring to that have left Evanston due to lack of available office space?
Also, if Evanston's downtown becomes more like Lincoln Park, I'm not sure many people would complain. Lincoln Park is a very nice neighborhood.
Zoning Broken
The way this debate has stretched on is a testament to the failure of our zoning process. Once we have reasonable, modern zoning in place, we should stick to it. Buildings requiring more than minor exceptions to the criteria should be dismissed out-of-hand. The fountain square proposal falls within the adopted Downtown Plan, and therefore must be approved.
I think the latest tower rendering far outshines anything that has been built in Evanston this decade, and I'd like to see the project go forward.
Tower
Why do people always think that bigger is better? Evanston has such a nice downtown area - why make it into a 'big city wanna be'? I think it's sad. Look at Evanston size cities in Europe - beautiful and functioning without the 'big is better' problem. That said, something has to be done, as what we have there right now is not beautiful or useful.
385 Foot Condo Tower
I need more info on this. What's the cost to the city? What's the plan if a certain percentage of the condos go unsold? What is that percentage? What are the projected tax revenues to the City? Have those projected revenues been tested under stressed scenarios? Does the builder have committed financing? What happens if the financing dries out before the project is completed? How will the City handle the additional families, if any, with respect to schools and other services? Tons of empty storefronts in the downtown area. What's the new construction going to bring in for retail? How will it shore up the downtown business area?
Who on the city council and which mayoral candidate is getting paid by the people who want to build this tower? Before this city embarks on an expansion project, it really needs to have a plan for taking care of, absorbing, the new influx of people, if they materialize.
Chae Yi
Answer to questions
Mr. Yi:
What's the cost to the city?
None. In fact, the developer will contribute to the City's revenues by paying all sorts of permit fees, and transfer fees, along with 'affordable housing' donations.
It is true that in the extremely short term, the City will suffer a decrease in tax revenue, but this will more than be made up by the increased land value in the long run. NPV.
What's the plan if a certain percentage of the condos go unsold?
The developers would lower the price, of course, and make a smaller or no profit.
What is that percentage?
Not relevant.
What are the projected tax revenues to the City?
Projections are available on EvanstonNow...it is clear that you haven't researched this issue at all. It is not exactly a new topic in Evanston...
So now we have a flood of other one-sided, leading questions:
" Have those projected revenues been tested under stressed scenarios? Does the builder have committed financing? What happens if the financing dries out before the project is completed? How will the City handle the additional families, if any, with respect to schools and other services? Tons of empty storefronts in the downtown area. What's the new construction going to bring in for retail? How will it shore up the downtown business area?
OK..we can always dream up the worst imaginable scenario as an argument against any change.
I think we've heard these before. Don't expect many kids to be in downtown condos - parents prefer lawns for their kids. The School Districts, not the City, will have no problem with additional families, since tax revenue for the schools will be greatly in excess of any marginal costs of additional students.
Tons of empty storefronts in the downtown area, you say? Well...if you had done your research, you would know that the tower-haters criticized the tower for not having ENOUGH retail space. Supposedly there is was a shortage of retail spaces downtown, and the tower would kick the poor shoe merchant out of their home.
" What's the new construction going to bring in for retail? How will it shore up the downtown business area?"
More residents downtown means more customers at CVS, more people buying paint at Lemoi, more people buying coffee at Peet's and shopping at the Whole Foods downtown, more people buying burritos at Chipotle. This all generates jobs and tax revenue. I am aware that most of these are not locally owned, charming, unique businesses. I don't care.
Also, more people paying property taxes.
"Who on the city council and which mayoral candidate is getting paid by the people who want to build this tower? "
There is no evidence of any aldermen or candidates being paid by the developers. If such evidence exists, please present it.
Why are you making vague and unsubstantiated accusations? (Junad? Is that you?)
Answers to Questions
Mr. Who Knows (it seems you're well known regarding this issue),
Nope, it's not Junad (whoever that person is). I'm actually new to town, just a resident since 2007 -- moved from Chicago.
First of all, I'd like to say it's very disingenuous of you to not use your proper name, especially when you seem very willing to dish the insults.
Secondly, I noticed that you did not answer my more pertinent economic questions. I'll need to spend some time to look up the revenue projections and see how such projections were modeled. Thank you for directing me to a source. As for the other economic questions, please provide some insight as to the financing for this project. Certainly in this economic environment, commercial properties (especially for condos) must have very stringent lending conditions. Moreover, given the fact that banks are very risk averse, is there a binding commitment by a financial institution to lend such funds? Or does the city need to issue bonds to finance this project? I thought I had read in one of these comments that the tower would get TIF financing - that's a cost to the city. What happens if lending commitment dries up mid-project, as we seem to see quite a bit of in downtown Chicago?
Thirdly, you blew off my very pertinent questions about school districts and downtown businesses. On the schools point, from what I hear, elementary schools (other than the ones in the southside) do not have a lot of additional capacity. If people actually buy the condos in question (I refuse to accept your assumption that families don't move into condos), either redistricting will need to occur or new schools will need to be built. Regarding the former, I'm sure there would be quite a few families who suddenly find themselves "redistricted" out of the school district that they thought they would be in, etc. Imagine what their reaction will be. Regarding the latter, that means an additional tax burden on the citizens of Evanston.
As for the downtown businesses part, please don't paint with a broad brush on this issue. My point is not exactly inapposite to a discussion about downtown businesses. We need business in the downtown area; however, since this past fall I've noticed quite a few businesses going out of business. I would just like to know how the city will help promote business downtown.
Finally, regarding the "who got paid off" comment, yes, that was slightly tongue in cheek. But, given the track record of Illinois politics the past few months, and given the enormous amount of opposition to the tower, the plans for the tower still have traction....
I'm not against "change." I just don't support insensible ones. Please convince me the tower is a sensible one.
Best regards,
Chae
Who - the professor?
Who are you a wantabe professor? You always talk about NPV.
All need to wait and see what this proposal brings and what the developers ask for from the TIF, since It is my understanding the proposal has not been presented to the public.
Who again you need to do your homework on who supports who in elections and what are the pay backs -legal or illegal.
It is very hard to prove anything - and you have not been around long enough or even gone to any meetings to know what is going on in town.
Mr who states "There is no evidence of any aldermen or candidates being paid by the developers. If such evidence exists, please present it."
Who what evidence do you have to verify your statement inquiring minds would like to know?
Absence of evidence
Junad asks:
Mr who states "There is no evidence of any aldermen or candidates being paid by the developers. If such evidence exists, please present it."
Who what evidence do you have to verify your statement inquiring minds would like to know?
Junad, you are asking me to provide evidence that there is no evidence.
This is ridiculous. Those who make charges have the burden of providing evidence.
Mr. Who Knows?
I read your comments in these postings all of the time and you really should change your screen name to Mr. Know-it-all. Not only do you continually make an attempt to show everyone how very intelligent you are by casting your all-knowing 'facts' around, but you do it in such a manner as to be condescending and, on many occasions, rude. You continually make an effort to show how intellectually limited people with an honest OPINION are. Why don't you EASE UP on folks and try to limit the amount of negativity you are putting out there?
Negativity
'Charles' asks me:
"Why don't you EASE UP on folks and try to limit the amount of negativity you are putting out there?"
Negativity? What negativity? Or, more to the point, which side is being negative?
I have a vision of Evanston with a shiny tower at its center and a brand new downtown Civic Center. I see an open and tolerant society, where all are welcome as long as they mind their own business and pay their taxes. Enquiring minds will be able to seek knowledge at Northwestern, without being taxed. I see a densely populated downtown, providing customers for many shops and restaurants . I see citizens using our downtown transit hub, riding the CTA and the Metra. I see tourists from around the world coming to Evanston to see our new Tower, and they will stay at the Orrington Hotel (which will no longer be on Orrington, because the street will be renamed in honor of the Tower) or the new Hampton Inn at 225 Greenwood. I see delicious pancakes and four flavors of syrup, and a bottomless pot of coffee.
What is so negative about that, I ask you?
Meanwhile, the NIMBYs have a gloomy vision of a depopulated Evanston. Only people who were born here will be welcome. The young people, especially NU students, will be so put off by the sleepy charming atmosphere that they will flee to New York or San Francisco as soon as they graduate. The downtown will decay, as the old 708 Church building continues to fester while our alderman sit in the dilapidated Civic Center passing ever more restrictive zoning regulations. Storefronts will be deserted without customers. Condo residents so tired of being scapegoated by the CSNA will pack up and leave, selling their units to slumlords who will rent them to undergraduates at Loyola who are majoring in political science. Instead of looking to the future, Evanston residents will admire their ancient racist heroes Charles Dawes and Frances Willard.
Again, which person is being negative here?
Clearly, the NIMBYs realize that the people are getting wise to their politics of fear and gloom. The NIMBY candidate, McSame, was soundly defeated in November, and the poll on EvanstonNow shows that Evanston residents clearly favor the Tower. So the NIMBYs resort to ad hominem ( or ad who-minem) attacks, instead of focusing on the real issues.
Ditto on the life-long Evanston resident nonsense
I've got to agree with Mr. Who Knows: I am SO tired of hearing from "life long" Evanston residents who believe that they are entitled to run this city -- just because they were born here.
I live here now. I pay taxes here. Why this big focus on life long residents? I've never lived anywhere else that someone felt that they had a birthright to run a city. You may not realize it but this attitude is very unwelcoming.
So you candidates running for Mayor as life long Evanstonians and including it in your ads...I'm not voting for you. If being born here is on the list of why you should be elected, run for dog catcher first and I'll see how you perform in that job before I consider you for mayor.
Where you were born is not an accomplishment.
Where you were born is not an accomplishment.
Anonymous says:
"Where you were born is not an accomplishment."
Exactly. In fact, I am thoroughly unimpressed by people who boast about being life-long Evanston residents.
Haven't you people ever wondered what is on the other side of Howard St. ? You never went out of town to college, or joined the Navy and sailed the world, or wanted to go mining for gold in Alaska? You never wanted to take a job in Manhattan or work on a ranch in Montana? Apparently you do not have an enquiring mind.
Sure..some people don't have the opportunity, because of family obligations,etc. But it is nothing to boast about. I am much more impressed by the people who have had the ambition to come to Chicago from Korea or Wisconsin or wherever to work here or study here or start their own businesses ( like the south Asians who run the IHOP ).
Even the annoying Charles Dawes left Ohio and came to Chicago. He wasn't born here.
South Asians who run the IHOP
I think you have never visited the Evanston IHOP at 101 Asbury!
IHOP
Sorry - IHOP is at 100 Asbury
IHOP (Evanston)
100 Asbury Ave., Evanston
Tel: (847) 328-1450
not on Asbury
I was referring to the Skokie IHOP.
I don't like the Asbury IHOP. It needs to be remodeled.
Intelligent?
Mr Who is not aware of zoning or planning. He does not understand them. Nor has he lived in Evanston very long, he claims everyone who has lived here along time is a "NIMBY"
It does not appear he has any children since he does know anything about the schools here in Evanston or anywheref for that matter.
He also continues to make silly statements about building an IHOP at the Civic Center site.
He also continues to claim he is a professor at NU - which is a joke.
Also the vast majority of his knowledge is based on his research on the computer, which is very limited, thus his vision is way off on what goes on in town.
Zoning maple syrup
Junad, You know that a nice stack of pancakes and warm maple syrup isn't so silly not is it. They could probably serve a stack of pancakes shaped like the new tower.
Lighten up on Professor Who, really.
How do you zone maple syrup?
385' Height
The fact that a "city" would impose a height limit in the first place is not only laughable but sad as well. My only wish is that one day people will not fear and try to totally resist change.
Butler V. Adams
385' Height
"The fact that a "city" would impose a height limit in the first place is not only laughable but sad as well."
Like Washington D.C.?