Mayor rejects Tilted Kilt license

Ted Mavrakis

Evanston Mayor Elizabeth Tisdahl has rejected the liquor license application for a proposed Tilted Kilt restaurant in downtown Evanston.

In her decision the mayor said she had been contacted by hundreds of residents about the bar with most of them saying they opposed it.

She said many residents objected to the "overly suggestive nature of the minimal attire of the female staff" and that corporate representatives from the company said they were unwilling to agree to any modification of the staff uniforms.

The mayor said traffic and pedestrian congestion concerns also counted against the application.

At tonight's City Council Rules Committee meeting, Mayor Tisdahl told aldermen that this image on the back of a Tilted Kilt employee's business card helped her decide the bar wasn't a good fit for Evanston.

Local landlord and restaurant owner Ted Mavrakis, contacted by Evanston Now this afternoon, said he had not yet been informed of the mayor's decision.

But Mavrakis said he did not plan to appeal an adverse decision from the mayor to the full City Council.

Mavrakis said he instead would pursue opening a Tilted Kilt in Morton Grove, where, he says, local officials have welcomed his interest in the franchise.

Mavrakis said he decided to start with the Evanston location because it would be in the Fountain Square building at 1601 Sherman Ave., which he already owns.

He said he would have spent $1 million on remodeling the now-vacant first-floor space the bar would have occupied and that it would have created 150 jobs in the city.

He said he has a building in mind for the Morton Grove site, but has not yet acquired it.

Mavrakis said the opposition in Evanston was based on uninformed opinion and not fact. None of the opponents, he said, had actually visited a Tilted Kilt.

"People went on the internet and saw a few pictures of girls, and based on that they decided the business was engaging in sexism, soft-core porn and all that," Mavrakis said. "I guess the mayor bought into that instead of looking at the facts."

Mavrakis said Tilted Kilt has 54 restaurants across the country with an additional 20 now under construction.

"Did all of these towns not do due diligence except Evanston?" Mavrakis asked.

"Now I guess I'll be counting the number of Evanstonians who visit the Tilted Kilt in Morton Grove, and send an email to the mayor with that," Mavrakis added.

Related story

Tilted Kilt: Hot debate over sexy bar

Related document

The mayor's Tilted Kilt decision

Comments

Tilted Kilt did not belong in Evanston

Thank goodness we won't have the Tilted Kilt here.  It doesn't belong here.  I'm sure it's a fine establishment in Rockford, Schaumburg, Elgin or wherever else they were allowed to set up shop, but not here. Evanston is an historic suburb on the north shore.  Why on earth would we ever allow the Tilted Kilt up here?  This wouldn't even be a topic of discussion in Wilmette, Kenilworth, Winnetka or any of the other north shore suburbs.  Hotel concierges regularly send their out-of-town corporate executives to the Tilted Kilt in Chicago for a good time.  Did we really want something like that in downtown Evanston? What's next? Hooters?

That is exactly the kind of

That is exactly the kind of comment I would expect from an Evanstonian, and exactly why I moved out of Evanston after living there for just one year.  I have never experienced a place filled with so many NIMBYs, and whiners, and really conservative people who somehow live under the self-delusion that they are progressive thinkers.  This kind of backwards thinking is already hurting the city, and its impact, particularly financial, will continue to grow over the years.

To the poster that moved out

To the poster that moved out of Evanston:  why are you so incensed about this topic if you aren't even a resident?  I am a resident and I don't want the Tilted Kilt here. Obviously, I'm not the only one.  Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.  I would never insinuate that you might have backwards thinking regarding this issue but you apparently feel that it's okay to do so with me.  That says a great deal.

Keep the money here? YES

"Hotel concierges regularly send their out-of-town corporate executives to the Tilted Kilt in Chicago for a good time.  Did we really want something like that in downtown Evanston?"

So that the money the 'corporate executives' are going to spend stays in Evanston??  Then YES.

Also, was there a poll taken for concierge recommendations and I missed it?

Also, have to love that this implies that there is no 'good time' to be had in Evanston, sexy or not, AND that this is exactly how 'we' should want it.

AWESOME.

You make a fair point about

You make a fair point about the money staying in Evanston.  I would love for that space to be filled, but I object to having Tilted Kilt in Evanston.  There's a certain culture up here that I like a great deal and I don't want a chain such as Tilted Kilt in downtown Evanston.  It just doesn't fit.

Of course you can have a great time in Evanston.  My husband and I would come up here all the time when we used to live in Lakeview.  This is a fun town.  Never in my statement did I imply that there is no 'good time' to be had in Evanston.

For the record, this is not a moral issue for me.  The place just doesn't fit up here.  That's all I'm saying.

Wilmette, Kenilworth and

Wilmette, Kenilworth and Winnetka don't have downtowns filled with vacancies. They don't have a massive underfunded pension liability. They don't have people getting shot blocks from the local high school. They don't have prostitutes working out of spas a block from the Montessori school.

Evanston needs money desperately: to fund some functional anti-crime efforts if nothing else. We need investment. What we have chosen - with this decision, with the farcical "bag ban" proposal - is an anti-business, anti-growth approach that ensures our downtown will remain dotted with empty storefronts.

And yes, I for one would like to see the out-of-town corporate executives coming to Evanston. You know why? They spend money. That brings jobs, sales tax revenue, increased foot traffic, parking revenue, etc. You know what we get with this decision and our sense of history? An empty building.

Let's review the vacancies: Fountain Square building. Chase rotunda. Original Borders location. New Borders location. Pier One location. That's just in the immediate area. We also have all the empty storefronts on Davis, Maple, Chicago, Oak, Sherman, Church, etc.

At this moment, why would anyone choose to move to Evanston - retail or residential - over Wilmette, Winnetka, Kenilworth? We have higher or equivalent taxes, a moribund downtown, a serious crime problem, an anti-business reputation and our precious sense of history.

Seriously?

What are you trying to say? Your tone is so insulting when addressing Rockford, Schaumburg, and Elgin. News flash- we have bars in Evanston that REQUIRE their waitresses to wear tight clothing, and sexy attire. You just helped fill one of the stereotypes of Evanston- a stuck up, snobby, insulting, close minded person who say things like "wouldn't even be a topic of discussion in Wilmette, Kenilworth, Winnetka or any of the other north shore suburbs"  Really? Another news flash, this is Evanston, not Wilmette, Kenilworth, or Winnetka, sounds like you need to move.

Evanston IS Chicago---face it

Face it Evanston is mostly an extension of Chicago.  Yes north of Lincoln within several blocks of the lake is basically Wilmette or even on a par with Winnetka but otherwise Evanston is Chicago.  There are pockets or even large areas of Evanston that are very nice and compare to Wilmette but you could also compare them to Lincoln Park or Hyde Park and probably other places.  NU's campus can for all purposes be compared U.Chicago though U.Chicago is surrounded more closely by bad areas---but Evanston seems to be catching up via the criminals just importing themselves to the campus area.

But even some of the nice areas are subject to crime overflow from Chicago---either because of the border or CTA/bike/car access to Chicago.   And a large portion of Evanston is crime ridden and always will be as long as the Council and liberal groups want to live in a dream world---just look at the crime locations and locations of criminals when caught from the nice areas.

The 'morals' police want to pretend otherwise.  They clearly don't want to recognize

Evanston can't afford to be so picky with businesses that it 'lets in.'  It is just not much of a prize anymore.

Insulting?

My tone is insulting?  In my comment did I ever talk badly about those other towns?  No, I didn't.  Now let's look at your comment, shall we? 

"You just helped fill one of the stereotypes of Evanston- a stuck up, snobby, insulting, close minded person who say things like "wouldn't even be a topic of discussion in Wilmette, Kenilworth, Winnetka or any of the other north shore suburbs".

Wow.  I don't even know you and you've already labeled me as a stuck up, snobby, insulting, close-minded person.  Wow.  I don't even know how to respond to that.  I know that I don't insult people for having an opinion and the courage to share that opinion publicly.  I know that I don't call other people names because mature grown-ups don't do that.  I know that I don't jump down someone's throat when their opinion differs from mine.

I don't know you.  I'm not going to call you an insulting, close-minded, stuck-up, snobby person because I don't know you.  I realize that you have a strong opinion on this issue and I respect you for that having that opinion.

Good night.

I also thought Alison's tone

I also thought Alison's tone was snobbish and condescending.  Evanston is drug, gang, and violence ridden community with a failed city government.  Alison implied that Evanston is too morally superior for the Tilted Kilt.  This episode proved the opposite.  Evanston is morally inferior.  I have often wondered why there are such a high percentage of hypocrites and such an incompetent city council in Evanston.

This episode is a tragedy for the decent residents because the message is clear to the rest of region - avoid Evanston.

 

No snob

How on earth could you pick up a tone in my comment that was snobbish and condescending?  It was simply a comment.  I never said anything derogatory about those other suburbs.  You may have received my comment that way, but that's not how it was written.  I can't take responsibility for how you may infer something.

Again, I haven't seen anyone from the anti-TK crowd hurl insults at any of the posters that are pro-TK. Hmmm.  Interesting.  Words hurled against me have included snobbish, condescending, stuck-up, insulting, close-minded, and goodness knows what else.  However, I have never said anything negative about the pro-TK supporters.  Makes ya' think...

Many of you have implied that the anti-TK crowd consists of  frumpy, old housewives afraid of losing their husbands for hours at a time to the beautiful servers at the Tilted Kilt.  I've talked to a few men about this issue and they are also against having a chain such as the Tilted Kilt here in Evanston.  It takes away from the area and it's not the right fit. 

Enough said.

Evanston elected officials are inflexible to businesses

What a sad day for Evanston. More evidence that our city leaders are totally inflexible with business owners.

Has Mayor Tisdahl ever set foot in a Tilted Kilt?

Tisdahl's decision lost Evanston thousands of dollars in added sales tax revenue.

I think Tisdahl fell victim to the exaggerated shrill of two attorneys who organized a petition against the Tilted Kilt. One said the "breastaurant" would turn downtown Evanston into an "adult entertainment venue." The other attorney said in all seriousness that a Tilted Kilt "would train men to associate girls with sexual arousal."

And Tisdahl's decision supports that thought process. 

So the storefront remains empty.

City leaders in March sent away Gordon Foods, which wanted to open a grocery store at 2424 Oakton. The problem was the owner could not afford to meet the provisions of the city's green ordinance enacted two years ago in a severe Recession. Gordon Food owners tried to negotiate a deal with the city but our elected officials stood by the green ordinance. No other city has such an ordinance and since it's enactment not one store over 10,000 square feet has come to Evanston.

Meanwhile, our city leaders are trying to decide if they want to enact a bag tax or just ban bags altogether.

You can expect no tax relief and city taxes will be raised once again.

We need sensible leaders on our City Council. NOW!!!!

Tisdahl's bad judgment

Evanston voters got the mayor that they deserve....they elected her by a wide margin, despite her well-known anti-Tower positions.  So is anybody surprised that she is once again opposed to development?

Poor judgment

This is very bad judgment on the Mayor's part.  It seems likely that she would have approved the application for a different type of restaurant.  It appears as a moral issue and politics should stay out of that.  If Tilted Kilt is the highest rent payer then they should be allowed to operate.  

Since Evanston really is such

Since Evanston really is such a family oriented community, perhaps we should try to get a Chucky Cheese in the vacant Fountain Square location.  This would surely create a sizable number of jobs to the city and draw more families into the restaurants and theaters that are already here, helping them to thrive.  Since this space has remained vacant for two years now, does anyone have any other ideas for acceptable businesses that could shoulder the cost of running an entertainment-based business in Evanston?

Even Chuck E. Cheese has a

Even Chuck E. Cheese has a history of violent crime...  So you can't win with that either.

"In Brookfield, Wis., no restaurant has triggered more calls to the police department since last year than Chuck E. Cheese's.

Officers have been called to break up 12 fights, some of them physical, at the child-oriented pizza parlor since January 2007. The biggest melee broke out in April, when an uninvited adult disrupted a child's birthday party. Seven officers arrived and found as many as 40 people knocking over chairs and yelling in front of the restaurant's music stage, where a robotic singing chicken and the chain's namesake mouse perform."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122878081364889613.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Today I am embarrassed for Evanston

To think that the local morality patrol has managed to coerce our mayor into prohibiting a legal business from bringing substantial (and sorely needed) jobs and revenue into our city is shameful.  What next?  Where will they stop?  Other drinking establishments in the city have waitresses wearing rather revealing clothing-- do we go after them next?  I bet some people are offended by the skimpy outfits I have seen while working out at EAC-- go get 'em mayor!  And let's not even bring up what goes on at our local beaches for three full months every year-- with parents likely avoiding even walking their children past the entrances (lest they glance toward the water and see, well, you know...) I suggest the mayor give serious thought to turning them into under-12 giant sandboxes.

 

Once these next steps are taken we should all realize benefits such as zooming property values as word of the wholesome family orientation in Evanston sweeps across the Chicagoland area.  I know there will likely be an exodus from north of Isabella as Wilmette residents flee their burlesque-ridden community...

Beach attire

There is a difference between wearing a bikini on the beach and wearing a "bikini" to work.  Women who work at the Titled Kilt aren't just being paid to wait tables; they are being paid to use their bodies in a sexual way, in a work context.  And I personally find that exploitive.   I don't object to seeing women's bodies or men's bodies on a beach or at a gym; I objected to the context, ie, women being PAID to expose their bodies.  There's a difference.  

But, more important than that, the majority of people didn't want it and it is always a victory when people, not corporations, choose their fate.

Objection overruled

"I don't object to seeing women's bodies or men's bodies on a beach or at a gym; I objected to the context, ie, women being PAID to expose their bodies.  There's a difference. "

 

So I suppose that only PG rated movies will be allowed at the Century Theaters now....

 

"But, more important than that, the majority of people didn't want it and it is always a victory when people, not corporations, choose their fate."

 

No...a noisy minority of do-gooders did a lot of complaining, and got their way.  That is not the people choosing their fate. 

...  Then don't go to the

...  Then don't go to the Tilted Kilt, if you don't approve of it.  It's your choice!

I respect your opinion, but it doesn't mean that you or anyone else should impose your morals on the rest of us. 

There are plenty of people (women included) who were NOT opposed to this.  Can you justify that "a majority" of residents were against it?

The majority of people didn't want it?

According to whose data?  The Evanston Now poll ran more than 2 to 1 IN FAVOR of the TK.  I have seen no evidence that the Mayor's decision was based on majority sentiment.  Rather, it appears to have been based on her desire to appease a group of ubervocal members of Evanston's Morality Patrol, who know what is best for all of us (despite in all likelihood having never even having set foot in a TK).

Beach attire

I would much rather have to see the waitress' midriff than some bozo's feet.  We should ban flip flops in restaurants

The Mayor is out of touch with Reality

The Mayor is totally out of touch with reality!  150 jobs - 1 million in capital expense, on going revenue from liquor sales and food sales, and the other rip off fees the city charges businesses. No doubt improved property tax revenue on top of the rest.

I would have assumed some of those jobs would have gone to Evanston residents? Of course the Mayor is happy using our money for job programs that no jobs exist?  Most of the jobs would have helped the less skilled residents that would not be likely to work else where.

The city is happy coming up with all kinds of schemes for economic development which fill useless positions at the city, such as closing our animal shelter, study after study on useless economic development ideas - wasting hundred of thousands in taxpayer dollars, beyond the fact we citizens have to sit at council and listen to the silliness.

The Mayor has shown us again she lacks the ability to lead, and make a unpopular decision, that cost us money.  It a good thing she has Wally, so he can had out a few more pink slips to city employees to make up for the revenue we lost from the fact the Tilted Kilt moved to Morton Grove!

Tilted Kilt

I have lived in Evanston for many, many years, and for the 1st time I can say I am embarrassed to live here. Evanston prides itself in being a very educated, very diverse community, but when a "restaurant" that has girls dressed in skirts, all of that diversity and education goes right  out the window. The fact that a bunch of middle aged woman, who were scared that their husbands would have another excuse to get away from them if the Tilted Kilt did in fact open, were able to sway the Mayor to such an idiotic decision is embarrassing. Evanston needs jobs, tax revenue, and it sure would not hurt to have another option to go have a few drinks and some decent food in the downtown area. the negative comments made about other town in Illinois by Alison above, show exactly what I am embarrassed about. Who are you to say such negative things about Rockford, Schaumburg, and Elgin? You sound like a snot nosed Evanston resident, and should venture to some of those town to meet some of the great people that live there. Get off your high horse and look around. Evanston should worry MORE about cleaning up the south side and parts of the west side, and less about restaurants that plan to invest $ into the community. Evanston prides itself on being a town that allows people to have a choice, whether it's religion, sexual preference, or political party, but in this case it went against that belief and simply squashed something it did not know much about. Shame on you.

Your comment is unbelievably

Your comment is unbelievably sexist.  Why on earth would you think that the women who spearheaded the petition drive regarding the Tilted Kilt would be "scared that their husbands would have another excuse to get away from them if the Tilted Kilt did in fact open..."  I have a thought:  could it be that they have minds of their own and, better yet, likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with their husbands?  I know that sounds crazy, but that just might be it.  Maybe they're comfortable and confident in their relationships and that they just didn't want the Tilted Kilt in the town that they call home.  

I can't believe the number of posters who get all up in arms because some people voice their opinion about something.

And what negative comment did I make exactly about the other towns to which I referred?  Maybe you can't remember.  I'll jog your memory:

"I'm sure it's a fine establishment in Rockford, Schaumburg, Elgin or wherever else they were allowed to set up shop, but not here."

Not once did I say that Rockford was a bad town.  Not once did I say that Schaumburg was a bad town. Not once did I say that Elgin was a bad town.  Not once.  Care to take back your accusation?  I thought not.

Thank you for saying that I sound like a snot-nosed Evanston resident.  You don't know me and that's a pretty charged comment to make, but it is yours to make.  See, I believe everyone has a right to their own opinions, as do I.

I have been to the aforementioned towns.  I have already addressed the fact that I never said anything negative against them.

I agree that crime has gone up and that is a serious problem.  I will say that I have noticed a greater police presence in our area, so that's good.  By the way, it's not just the south and west sides that have crime. A number of burglaries have occurred in the northwest area, as well.

Now, were you shaming me or Mayor Tisdahl?  I'm not sure.  Anyway, don't waste your shame on me.  It won't stick.  Life is too short to waste on those that want to shame others.

Have a great night.

Nanny Tisdahl

Looks like Tisdahl is taking a page out of the Soviet Central Planning handbook. She has decided that she and not the market (us producers and consumers) should determine who can operate in Evanston. Sports bar: bad, but performing arts center subsidized by the city (although there is not enough consumer demand to support it financially) good. Let's not even consider that one would be a net gain and the other a drain on tax coffers. I live downtown, and am amazed by the number of  empty storefronts, this makes for a less attractive place to live, and demonstrates the effects of her policies.  If there were truly enough moral outrage against the establishment, no one would go and it would quickly go out of business. Although we shouldn't strive for depravation, the argument that this would erode the morals of our community is laughable. Evanston has a few murders each year and fairly frequent shootings, this is infinitely more harmful than a Hooters clone. It is criminal that Mr. Mavrakis cannot do what he chooses with the property he owns. This is another result of a problem that lowers the quality of life (our access to goods and services) for us citizens that was demonstrated on an even greater scale by the rejection of Gordon Food Services (which sells cheap food and would have most benefited our poorer residents). The message is clear; EVANSTON IS NOT BUSINESS FRIENDLY, LOOK ELSEWHERE. Perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky in Evanston to have an omnipotent mayor who knows what is best for us, since we clearly cannot be trusted to make that decision ourselves.
 

What the anti-anti-Tilted Kilt Petition should have done

A vocal minority on an issue like this will always sign more petitions and make noise than a 'pro' group.  A petition should have said "Do you favor a liquor permit and permits to open for legal businesses even if you would not frequent them or like the kind of business."

Similar petitions to counter things like the Branch Library Friends would be more effective rather than ones 'pro' closing. 

While the Tilted Kilt is different that some other businesses in Evanston, it is not that different.  Places that serve or want to serve liquor will now be on guard since the city has shown it is willing to make [dictate] decisions based on a vocal minority---"beware you may be next." 

Certainly potential businesses will see this and even if their business is very different and can't be attacked on morals, they will ask if it is worth it with zoning, potential protests no matter what they do [support wars, environment, history of owner before 21, etc.], taxes, Council debate going on for months, businesses that left Evanston and decide they are better off in Wilmette or Skokie.

Agree.  Evanston, by virtue

Agree.  Evanston, by virtue of its business unfriendly city council, will eventually lose all business and raise our property taxes all the higher.  Every last city council member needs to be voted out and replaced by individuals who serve the residents of the city instead of their own misplaced ideals.

Francis Willard Coffee House

Why don't the investors run with the Francis Willed coffee house idea? I'm sure that would raise as much revenue and supply as many jobs as TK would have!

Seriously?

With all of the vacancy that the downtown area has, how can the Mayor even be serious about turning away any business?  This isn't a strip club, and it wouldn't have created an 'adult entertainment area'.  I find it hard to believe that the Mayor has decided to treat Evanstonians like adults in any way with this decision.  Don't like the place?  Don't go!  I probably wouldn't have gone myself (I dislike Hooters for much the same reason - mainly that a woman, no matter how scantily clad, isn't sexy after an 8-hour shift - she's just grumpy in a miniskirt).

And I can't speak for anyone else, but I already associate young women with sexual arousal.  No restaurant chain necessary.

Watch out for next step in Morals Police

Next will probably be the beaches---remember not only adults but children are there and probably not a few hormonal teenagers.  For the protection of all children through at least 30 and any possible adult who might be offended riding a bike along the beach or seeing a woman travel to the beach, 1890s swimsuits for women.  Any beaches where NU women go would be off limits to any NU student since any college female would be too much for any Evanston resident to see.

Restrictions on any NU adds SexWeek or other such ads since hormonal non-students may see them and get excited,

No restaurant help under 40 for fear of a friendly waitress being mis-taken for flirting and getting male customers excited.   Obviously no women bartenders or waitresses in any of the bars or restaurants that serve liquor.

As the Council wants to avoid any chance of anyone getting excited, the next step would be to separate men and women at restaurants.   If anyone thought the WCTU had an effect for many years on Evanston, wait until the Council gets geared up. 

Questions for Mayor Tisdahl

These are serious questions I would love for someone to ask Ms. Tisdahl:

1) While considering this measure, did you go visit a Tilted Kilt restaurant? If no, why not?

2) What specific "traffic and pedestrian congestion concerns" are you citing? Is there a city engineering plan this refers to? Do these concerns mean that there are specific limitations on what type and size of business will be allowed in this space? If so, what are those specifications?

3) Did the Mayor's office proactively do anything to poll Evanston residents on this matter, or did they simply field the calls that were placed to its office?

4) Does the Mayor's office work with commercial property owners to help identify acceptable companies, business types, etc. that the city would like to see in place?

5) Is the Mayor concerned about the number of empty storefronts in downtown? What is being done to help fill these?

6) If morality is on the table, why is the Keg allowed to continue operating, even after a murder and repeated underage drinking. Why is the Carnation Spa on Chicago Ave still open even though two workers were arrested and charged with prostitution two weeks ago?

7) If this same vocal group that pushed the TK out decided that sexually explicit movies should not be shown at the Century Theaters, would that be an ordinance you would consider?

8) If the city is concerned about the kinds of businesses that set up shop here, why is PayDay Loans allowed to remain?

9) Why can't the city get a handle on the gang violence and drug activity? Why can't the area around the high school, or Howard, be made safe?

10) How would you define your job as Mayor of Evanston?

 

I am a strong feminist but I

I am a strong feminist but I can't believe that Mayor Tisdahl turned down this proposal.  I probably wouldn't go to the Tilted Kilt but I'm not going to hang out at Buffalo Wild Wings either, which she was all over cutting the ribbon for.  Can we stop being so negative to businesses which want to locate in Evanston?

+1 The "Tilted Kilt" would

+1

The "Tilted Kilt" would not be a place I would ever visit, but I don't see a single compelling reason to oppose it. It would use a vacant location (we have too many of those), generate some employment and taxes. The objections based on traffic are ridiculous -- there is (underutilized) public parking nearby. I have more of a problem with customers of businesses along Davis and Church abusing bike lanes: e.g. stopping on the bike lane at Five Guys. Some police enforcement would certainly help.

A  vocal, judgmental, minority has won this time. The real problem is that most residents do not oppose. From there to lobbying in favor, there is a huge divide. I don't have any problem having such bar in the neighborhood, but I would not lobby for it since I do not want to be in any way associated with it.

 

TK

Our anti-business mayor has exhibited her lack of cojones by not opposing a VERY VERY small minority in Evanston. Good luck with our taxes!!

Calm Down Dearest

Ah...here we have a bunch of people who don't like the decision so they want to stereotype people that disagree with them and define the other side's argument for them.  Against the tilted kilt? You must be a Birkenstock wearing femo-nazi prude who is against the free market, right? Easier than looking in the mirror and easier than trying to understand the alternative view.

Opposition to the Tilted Kilt is not a moral referendum.  It is a statement about whether a type of business belongs in a type of location - that is all.  No one is saying that women must wear burkhas, that this is Evanston's only problem or that there is no place for bars or adult entertainment.  There is.  Just not this specific place.

This is a business where access to attractive, young, scantily-clad female entertainers (TK's word), working for tips is an explicit part of the value proposition.  The Mayor has decided that business doesn't belong in that location.

The attempts to stereotype people who agree with the decision is offensive.  Stick to attacking the arguments - not the people making them - and next time there is a public debate you may have more success. And grow up...it is possible for reasonable people to disagree with one another. And yes, I recognize the irony of that final paragraph.

If your objection is - as you

If your objection is - as you say - just to this specific place, I wonder what locations in Evanston might be suitable for the bars and adult entertainment.

Would the empty JP Morgan Chase rotunda be suitable? What about the empty former Borders location? Or the OTHER empty former Borders location? The empty former Pier One storefront?

What particular features of the empty Fountain Square building are inappropriate?

Would the empty IDES office on Oak be ok? What about the empty site of Bill's Blues?

What sort of "adult entertainment" would work for you in Evanston?

Do you think all of Evanston's bars and restaurants are appearance-blind in hiring and staff selection?

Tilted Kilt opponents are whipped up in a frenzy

Not one Tilted Kilt supporter here has stereotyped or said anything close in saying Tilted Kilt opponents are "Birkenstock wearing femo-nazi prude[s] who [are] against the free market."

YOU said that my dearest Fair and Balanced.

Yet, two attorneys who circulated a petition through the liberal website, MoveOn.org, stereotyped the Tilted Kilt as a "breastaurant" that "trains men to associate girls with sexual arousal." Exactly how does that work? Does Tilted Kilt hold workshops to train these men?

These type of demonizations and exaggerations are tactics to whip up the anti-Tilted Kilt crowd into a frenzy. 

In fact, some Tilted Kilt opponents have called for investigations of property owner, Ted Makravis, and to boycott his businesses.

I find it saddening and disturbing that the vast majority of people who have signed the petition never set foot inside a Tilted Kilt. It's an upscale sports bar.

I like the acronym, BANANAS  - build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything.  

Or, PIGINIMBY - Phew, I'm Glad It's Not In My Back Yard

Amazing post

This is one of the funniest posts I have read on this issue.  Hypocrite.

Please - who did all the stereotyping i the ramp up to the decision?  The opposition to the TK.   It was all morally based.  Do you have to look any further than Kathleen Flaherty's comments?   Have you read the string of posts, the comments opposing the business? 

The opposition framed the argument from a moral stance using stereotypes and frankly character assassination of Mavrakis and the TK business.   

How easy it is to arm chair quarterback this one Fair & Balanced.  Change your name please. 

Where were your comments on this PRIOR the the mayor's decision.  You were probably looking in the mirror these past weeks and frankly saw nothing of validity.

What hypocrisy.

Are you serious?

Are you serious?  Fair and Balanced presented a very good argument and their comment is well written.  I too thought it was funny, especially the "femo-nazi prude who is against the free market".  I've got to find a way to use that phrase sometime in the near future.

I agree that we can disagree without stereotyping one another or calling each other names, like "hypocrite".  The poster never called anyone names.  He or she simply offered an opinion.

I thought we were all adults.

Interesting dichotomy.

I agree that calling opponents to the Tilted Kilt feminazis is a bad thing - welcome to the internet!  

But I also find it interesting that in all of the discussion against the Tilted Kilt here, the assumption is that having the bar here would turn Evanston's men into slavering skirt-chasing hounds.  This sexist assumption is no more or less patronizing than painting the opponents as frigid housewives, but it's also gone unchallenged by the opponents of TK.

I just hope that the same group of people that killed this development have an equally attractive proposition for the property - or hell, any of the increasingly empty properties around Evanston.  I await their wisdom.

A Tilted Kilt lawsuit is might be the ticket

This is not a zoning issue. The property is zoned for a restaurant.

This can't be a traffic or congestion concern because the storefront is located at a busy intersection in downtown Evanston and there were no facts presented to make such an allegation.

Then what can it really be that led Mayor Tisdahl to reject a liquor license for Tilted kilt when there are many other restaurant and bars nearby with liquor licenses?

Could it be that Mayor Tisdahl agrees with petition organizer and Attorney Kathleen Flaherty who says the Tilted Kilt would "train men to associate girls with sexual arousal?"  Could this be the true reason?

If the City Council rejects the Tilted Kilt then I think Ted Makravis has cause for a lawsuit, pure and simple. And for the sake of Evanston property and business owners I hope Makravis hires a good attorney and sues the city and the two attorneys that have grossly mischaracterized the Tilted Kilt in the public forum.

For the sake of our city's financial health, business owners and voters need to fight back against the anti-business sentiment emanating from Council chambers.

Yes more lawsuits

The mayor has once again placed the city under the possibility of more lawsuits.

What will the city do about NU parties or 'Sexweek', sextoys ? Prohibit any alcohol on campus to punish them and prevent any lurid behavior ?

The plastic/paper bag ban could also open us up to a suit if it is not applied across the board---not only [big?] grocery, but also dry cleaners, fast food, sit-down restaurants that have take out [I'm curious how pizza places will do without boxes],  clothing, drug, etc..

Not only is the Council keeping the Tilted Kilt out  but will make other potential business wonder about coming here [stay?].  We need money not more lawsuits.

BTW I would probably never go to the TK unless I would find they were the one place I could get a burger as good as a backyard grill.

Kilt

Evanston NIMBY's have officially gone BANANAs-build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything. Evanston is a ghost town with way too much crime and is being run into the ground.

Grow up, boys.

Quoted from the Mayor's comments.

 

"The final straw was at the end of the liquor commission hearing," she said. "I was given a business card from the owner that shows a picture of one of the entertainers — that is what the waitresses are called. She had no head — it was just breasts, a shrug shirt, a bare midriff and the kilt, that little skirt."

 

I'm no prude - in fact the culture I come from is a lot braver about sex than this country which has a highly censored tv industry - but really, is this restaurant anything but tawdry and cheap, appealing to the 16-year-old boy in "grown" men everywhere?

What a Joke!

Wow! Evanston residents must be blind because the city is struggling with trying to pay back millions in debt....do they realize how much revenue this place would've brought into their city??? Alot for just parking alone!   I hope their taxes get launched because this city needs to wake up and quit living in a bubble.  Any suggestions for paying back the debt?  Oh yeah, the City Manager will be soliciting ideas from citizens soon....can't wait!  Hey at least they can have prostitution coming out of massage parlors in Evanston, shame on "scantily clad women serving food".
 

At least Morton Grove residents will have revenue coming into their city.

Hooray for DIVERSITY!

Once again, the COEXIST-DIVERSE-INCLUSIVE-MULTI CULTURAL hamlet of Evanston has shown it's true colors! We accept everyone- except for YOU,YOU and YOU! Typical Evanstonians to preach but never practice.  The businesses are drying up one-by-one and the closed minded "liberals", who run this town, refuse to allow an opportunity for others to make it. Sure, lets put another coffee shop or maybe even an organic clothing store that sells, "comfortable" women's shoes and ankle length skirts made from hemp and recycled plastic bags in the empty space. That'll last long! What makes the Tilted Kilt any different than places such as Bar Louie? Hey Mayor, are you aware that Bar Louie has an "unofficial" rule for their lovely servers that requires them to show cleavage and wear short skirts? Or do you think it is just coincidental that they all seem to look this way? By the way, if I wanted anything more than a hamburger and a beer, I will just wait for the next massage parlor to open up.

Lost tax revenue referendum

Perhaps we the voters should pass a referendum to have the lost sales tax revenue directly deducted from Mayor Tisdahl's salary.

What about the other places?

I was in Bar Louie and there were quite a few cute waitresses ... One even had a short skirt on! When can we start targeting that place? What about Le Peep? The French implication in the name evokes the vision of the morally corrupt French with their Can-Can girls and nude beaches. Can we also picket LA Fitness? The traffic that place causes is just CRAZY! Plus - you can see through the second floor windows where scantily clad women are riding exercise bikes ... The thoughts those women might provoke may be the next moral corruption facing our city!

Legal versus moral

I'm so glad we have the city council here to protect our Evanstonian values. My only question is now that the city council has left the realm of legality and purely decided on reactionary, puritanical views, are my property taxes deductable as religious tithing? The church of Evanston just turned down hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes, yet is in the same breath considering taxing plastic bags. Wow. Way to legislate moral viewpoints. In the meantime the Tk affair has generated more responces than the shooting at the McDonalds. I hate to think of what that says about our community and our high moral values. Thank god the Evanston beaches are still private, that way there will be enough sand for every resident to collectively bury their heads.

Resistance is futile,

Resistance is futile, Evanstonians. It is run by an old girls network (and the men who love them), and their worst traits were on display in the TK fiasco: an almost pathological distrust of private enterprise, resentment of fit attractive women, and aggressive imposition of belief doctrine.

But as previous posters have pointed out, the scariest thing is Tisdahl's diktat which apparantly (I haven't read it) containing little legal reasoning. One has to wonder about whoever is advising her.

bi who loves cutes -- and also hates TK

Stop the stereotyping.  I'm a bisexual woman (who wears lipstick, skirts, and heels).  The TK women are super attractive.  And STILL . . . not right for Evanston because of the super sexualized image of women as a condition of employment.  

It is not about men vs. women, feminists vs. prudes, etc.  We don't agree about this and that is OK.  People spoke out and a decision was made.  That's democracy.  Let's stop name calling and hating.  We disagree.  It is done.  Vote em out, vote for em, I don't care, but let's keep a civil tone in our disagreement.  Please.

Succinct!

Thank you for your comments, bi-mom, and especially for your succinct phrasing of one of our primary objections:  "not right for Evanston because of the super sexualized image of women as a condition of employment."